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Arkanons News Item on the recent allegations of developer misconduct

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:00:00 - [1] Edited by: Moving Along on 27/05/2007 07:59:08 Originally by: Hrin Seems to me Goons are quite a bit more trustworthy than BoB. Goons do everything in game by legit game mechanics. They don't call in devs via MSN nor do they need to blatantly lie about their opposition. BoB have been trying to deflect the issues in this thread left and right by attacking the messengers. This isn't about goonswarm, its about CCP and their cozy relationship with BoB. Isn't it weird that the goons are the good guys? Don't go into "legit game mechanics". Goons have been known to crash nodes on purpose. That's not what I (or any intelligent) person call a game mechanic. I'm not bashing goons here, just stating my point of view. Originally by: UmmaHun DO SOMETHING, UNTIL WE ALL PUSH THE "BIG RED" BUTTON!!! Speak for yourself
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:04:00 - [2] Originally by: Dasani Waters Originally by: Malloc Memrel This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this. As an ex-Blizzard employee, snip snip for easy readin Bears repeating again. This is the concern that I seem to share with many other customers. Am I paying $20 a month for a virtual environment where everyone is bound by the same rules? Or am I paying for a virtual playground where only people with the right "connections" get to play demigod? That is true with any MMO; everyone is bound by the same rules, people just choose to break them sometimes. Someone will ALWAYS have the right connections, don't delude yourself there. Also, I don't think you pay $20 a month.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:06:00 - [3] Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:03:17 JV1V ... end of story
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:10:00 - [4] Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:06:44 Originally by: Moving Along JV1V ... end of story That wasn't much of a story. You should probably ask your buddies in your alliance. Maybe they will tell you what their tactics were to clear the supercamp in JV1V.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:21:00 - [5] Originally by: HR Paperstacks Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 08:10:10 Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Nikos Iscariot Edited by: Nikos Iscariot on 27/05/2007 08:03:17 JV1V ... end of story Did goons do it to crash the node or did they just post something that said "FIGHT TONIGHT!! COME KICK ASS!!!!" and the game couldn't handle it? Inquiring minds want to know It's also not Goon's fault if LV morons get resetting themselves to the end of the queue by relogging when they got kicked and couldn't get back on. Actually, there was no way for them to end up in the queue near the front because the goons on the nearby node were able to get in first by spamming the jump button. To respond to your question; they did do it to crash the node. Thats why there were tons of noobships that jumped in. Why are you arguing the FACT that they did this? A GM even acknowledged it. At the risk of derailing a thread, were you there? 'cause I was, and I stared a black screen for hours that night. I can tell you for certain, there were a TON of real ships there. Where all those noobships were, I don't know. I can also tell you that the ~15 large bubbles on the gate didn't help the node at all either. Participate in a battle to complain about it. Yes, I was there. There is a video showing all the noobships and frigs jumping in. Not a single ship larger than a frig jumped in until AFTER the node crash.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:26:00 - [6] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi When did a GM acknowledge it? Lots of goons ARE noobs- how do you know it just wasn't goons trying to get into the fight? How does this square up with what the goon above this said? I know they did cause the crash, it just seems unlikely to me that they did it intentionally. If you have real answers to these, I'm honestly interested- please don't take my skepticism for disbelief. The GM acknowledged through a petition. I know lots of goons are noobs. Why would you send in waves of frigs until just after the node crashes? It was intentional. I'm not complaining at all about it. What's done is done. I'm just saying that goons aren't as innocent as the poster, who I originally replied to, was claiming.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:34:00 - [7] Originally by: Angelus Damelon The allegations that Goons were intentionally trying to crash the JV1V node is pretty laughable. I was on the op that night, and when performance started suffering Goon FCs were pleading for smaller ships to stop trying to log in. Node crashes and lag are INCREDIBLY unpredictable and nearly impossible to manipulate or exploit for an advantage. I realize that anyone posting "lolo goonies exploitz remember jv1v!!!" is either trolling or stupid, but I just want to make this clear: when you're attacking or defending a Titan-building POS, everyone wants to be there. In JV1V, LV's defense alone would have strained the node. Any sort of serious attack was going to crash that node, with no malicious intent needed. I'm not pointing blame at LV either; actually, events like that simply illustrate how broken POS and sov mechanics are and how much they can encourage blobbing (even with the "anti-blob" Titan in the fray). But as a rank-and-file guy flying with RSF and allies that night, I got NO indication that Goons were deliberately trying to crash the node -- quite the opposite. They are NOT nearly impossible to manipulate. I don't call it an exploit; I call it unsportsmanlike. LV's defense wasn't actually straining the node to any serious extent. The massive wave after wave of frigs (and JUST frigs) is what crashed the node, thus allowing the full goon fleet to make it into the node before any LV player could have logged in, thanks to bad mechanics. I will agree with you on one point though; POS and sov mechanics need lovin.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:41:00 - [8] Originally by: boeses frettchen Originally by: Vasili Z Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Vasili Z This entire thing is a huge zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Thanks for this insightful contribution. It's good to see that you care about integrity and fair play, regardless of who is harmed or benefited. Ya, because you were harmed so much, your entire reason to play is ruined, you better quit now. You will never recover from this, ever. God, go play a new spaceship game.... You sir fail to see the point of this thread, its not bout BoB/goons and BoB fanbois defending BoB, its about game mechanics that allow such allegations. i clearly hope ccp realizes that they have to solve this once and for all. Telling all ppl to quit game that are not happy with this stuff makes u look like a fool tbh To mostly every point in this post, I agree.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Kukki Originally by: FatHed CCP, since you keep moderating this, that shows you are reading. Look, you've decieved your customers. You've added to the EULA no way for people who have already paid to get any of the prepaid time back. There is a simple solution to get this thread to stop. POST THE CHAT LOGS, it shouldn't take long, so stop delaying. It takes a time to change these Chatlogs that CCP stands in a better light in the end. So give em their time they need. You sir, are a troll.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 08:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Moving Along They do have a system in place. People break rules all the time. You can't literally tie their hands. Don't be so blatantly ignorant. The system they have in place is clearly inadequate, the rules governing dev conduct are clearly too loose and while people break rules all the time people actually developing a game should not do so and expect paying customers just to put up with it. It's become abundantly clear that the benefits stemming from CCP employees having characters actively involved in the game on Tranquility and maintaining close ties with certain members of the playerbase are far outweighed by the downsides as far as impartiality and an even playing field are concerned. I believe it was (very clearly) stated that dev misconduct (of the T20 style for example) is punishable by job termination.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:00:00 - [11] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi Originally by: Moving Along Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch Originally by: Moving Along They do have a system in place. People break rules all the time. You can't literally tie their hands. Don't be so blatantly ignorant. The system they have in place is clearly inadequate, the rules governing dev conduct are clearly too loose and while people break rules all the time people actually developing a game should not do so and expect paying customers just to put up with it. It's become abundantly clear that the benefits stemming from CCP employees having characters actively involved in the game on Tranquility and maintaining close ties with certain members of the playerbase are far outweighed by the downsides as far as impartiality and an even playing field are concerned. I believe it was (very clearly) stated that dev misconduct (of the T20 style for example) is punishable by job termination. T20 wasn't fired That is true. He was punished though. Many people were on vacation at the time and those who were in charge didn't know how far they should have gone. Why would you punish someone twice for the same 'crime'? It was stated that he would have been fired if the (sorry to say it this way) proper staff was there.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:03:00 - [12] Edited by: Moving Along on 27/05/2007 09:02:50 Originally by: Toggzter Hmmm... this realy stinks. Im a new player putting a lot of time into EVE right now. But if this if how EVE works im not going to continue playing thats for sure. Should it be CCCP maybe ? You don't even know what's going on, do you? Eve works fine. There are only accusations at the moment. Not a single shred of proof for anything.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:12:00 - [13] Before I go for the night, I will say one more thing: This thread just needs to be locked until the investigation is completed. People just keep repeating what has been said before. Everyone just needs to learn patience (We all can do that I'm sure). "Patience? This has gone on for too long." ... I won't even bother responding to those types of arguments. I hope everyone here can find some for of patience within them so that this can be resolved peacefully. I'm definitely going to keep playing this game, hopefully everyone else here does as well. I'll see those of you on the battlefield who actually care about the game more than having a dev get fired for unproven accusations. o7 good luck and please don't make the forum explode again
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:29:00 - [14] Originally by: mr bighelmet Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/05/2007 23:16:52 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Fluffernator I like how they think that the devs being their 'friends' makes it ok...... LMAO bob is just unbelieveable. hell so are the devs! they are kiling this game, but maybe thats their purpose. CCP has alreayd made millions upon millions of it, so why does it need to continue? So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? You think it would just be BoB? Are you upset that BoB communicate with Devs, or that anyone does? What next, ban the fanfest - or at least not let any of the players talk to anyone in CCP about Eve while they are there? /me shrugs. I think the entire community is upset that BOB uses MSN to bypass the petition system for reporting bugs (and more). Furthermore, they (likely) get "more" and "better" information via MSN if they talk about EvE with the developers. We're much more upset that a group of players (BOB, and more) are using MSN to speak to the GM's/Devs about EvE. It's a conflict of interest for the CCP Employee, and cheating for the player. Liang Edit: Grammar you think the entire community is upset? well stop thinking u just failed. im actualy quite **ed off at goons, for the lies they been feeding us, they know sharkbait was doing his job anwering there petition but they twisted it so they could pretend he was cheeting, let put it this way if i'm sharkbait that would have been the last goon petition i would have answered. They didn't try to check it up, i'm mean they could have ask in corp/alliance "did anyone had a petition about regarding the pos?", no what they tried to do is go for the kill, lets make a drama bomb that will hurt BoB, lets publish this right before the weekend so that CCP will not be able to react well and we will gain a few more hours of fame. Maybe u should wake up and start smelling the coffee cuse the ** u smell so far is not doing ur brain any good. /signed
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Liang Nuren Oh, and reporting inappropriate actions of an ISD reporter outside of normal game mechanics and rules is, by definition, cheating. First of all, stop putting words in my mouth... Secondly, listen to what you're claiming! You're claiming that the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member should be allowed to continue! You're claiming that reporting the INAPPROPRIATE actions of an ISD member is cheating? Your logic escapes me For those of us who likes this game, the sooner an ISD member who is doing INAPPROPRIATE stuff is removed, the better! To analogise to jobs again, if one of my customers tells me that one of my colleagues is in fact breaking our rules of conduct, and I bring that to my boss' attention, we investigate and find out the accusation is right and we punish the perpetrator, we're pretty damn happy that our customer informed us, no matter what the route. He said, and I quote, "outside of normal game mechanics and rules." Please don't try and twist his words.
Moving Along ARM Logistical Support	Posted - 2007.05.27 23:33:00 - [16] Originally by: Shadow Elk Originally by: Avon Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius Edited by: Atreus Minmatarius on 27/05/2007 23:25:31 Originally by: Avon So, any corp or alliance in which any member has used MSN to talk to anyone employed by, or affiliated with, CCP should be disbanded immediately? there is absolutely no reason why any player should comunicate with Devs through MSN (on somethng concerning game bussines). There are enough "official" communication established. It can be conflict of interest becouse we have no idea how close you are to them (or anyone else this is not just for bob) there has to be "paper trace" of the comunication between devs and players. If problem araises CCP can go in there archives and establish that there was nothing wrong. It is way easyer. Plus you already have 1 precident so it is not like it has never happened before. have a problem = file a petition in game or out through website have a sugestion = forums found a bug = petition Which is correct petition section for "Hi mate. Are you going to be comming to the Eve meet in London, or are you tied up at work that weekend?". Stuck maybe? Prolly the same as "Hey, we are getting pwned here, crash this system"-channel or MSN ^-^ I smell a troll.

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